langreiter.com plain, simple: comments-2002-10-23

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Mittwoch, 23. Oktober 2002

The Long Strange Trip to Java

2002-10-23-javaTrip

Wow! — Wahrlich ekszellent.

2002-10-23-ddmm

John McCarthy: "[Steve Russell] noticed that eval could serve as an interpreter for Lisp, promptly hand coded it, and we now had a programming language with an interpreter."

2002-10-23-eval

SEASIDE macht schon den Sprung zur Zwonull! — "Its most unique feature is its approach to session management: unlike servlet models which require a separate handler for each page or request, Seaside models an entire user session as a continuous piece of code, with natural, linear control flow - pages can call and return to each other like subroutines, complex sequences of forms can be managed from a single method, objects are passed by reference rather than marshalled into URLs or hidden fields - while fully supporting the backtracking and parallelism inherent to the web browser."

beta4.com/seaside2/

2002-10-23-seasides2

[create Bob McWhirter]: "Ideally, I'd like to have our open-source projects treated as sort of a venture fund. Many organizations with a need for rules, workflow, or whatnot could contribute dollars towards the development. Sure, development continues without sponsors, but sponsors get their use-cases considered quicker, their bugs fixed faster, and their voices heard more often in general."

2002-10-23-osVenture

tobi 7849 days AGO
seaside creates urls like /f1727c45-b4ba-4af0-99f9-d25ae484bf75/4711 — isn't that already a big disappointment? (i just scanned the turorial, so i certainly could have missed something.)

stephan schmidt 7849 days AGO
Version, and SnipSnap is still 0.2.x. I really get depressed when other software as this versions numbers, especially when movable type has 2.5. Perhaps are on the wrong trip.

chris 7849 days AGO
I think the purely session-based control flow concept is somewhat interesting and might work well enough for some kinds of applications. The drawbacks of the model as such (hard to spider/use in unintended contexts) and the URLs consisting - more or less - of session identification information only (can't bookmark, can't email, can't remember &c.) of course probably outweigh any benefits the model might ever bring in programmatic clarity ...

Next Vanilla version will be 7.0.

gavin 7849 days AGO
Then again, I don't see why REST and continuation-style session management have to be mutally exclusive. Alternatively, you also release a url shortening web service and charge by the character removed. You win either way.

chris 7849 days AGO
Speaking of charging by the character removed, anyone met Curl lately?

stephan schmidt 7848 days AGO
The same is true for OO component bases web frameworks. I believe that there are two types of web applications:

- document based: weblogs, company sites
- data based: intranet applications, WUI applications

For document based the usual approach with HTML/Forms (JSP, ASP, Helma,...) is best, for data based websites OO components (WebObjets, Tapestry, ...) or seaside is better.

earl 7848 days AGO
AFAIR the Curl people abandoned their ridiculous "traffic based licensing" some time ago and "downgraded" to a site/app based licensing approach. however i've never stumbled upon an app anyway.

chris 7846 days AGO
[?]

slauti 7845 days AGO
as might be expected from me i gotta comment on the long way to java, from a guy that is obviously endowed with the wrongest inschtincts ... so not knowing and in love with oneself, 300 bauds equivalent to 300 bps equivalent to 30 bytes or chars in the mid 80ies where a revelation and could easily transport what you could type in a second....;-)
Trotzdem danke chris, für den Link, die Geschichte ist schon interessant und sehr lehrreich.

http and the browser came to be a universal client and connection platform (anyone remember Netscape: we're not a browser we're a whole new platform?) by being tolerant against latency problems and by changing the paradigm from 1 mio tools (disturbing) to 1 mio docs (natural). So I do not quite agree with the two paradigms thesis. Go down to it, do not use http for everything, firewalls with open port 80 will not be "der weisheit letzter schluss" forever.

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